If you’ve followed me on this blog, twitter or facebook, you know I’ve been participating in the United Cardinals Blogger Roundtable. Yesterday was my day to ask the question. Below are the responses with a link to each participating bloggers site.

What are your thoughts on the relationship between Mozeliak and LaRussa, and the affects (if any) the change to Mo from Jocketty had on LaRussa’s tenure in St. Louis?

I found the question!!!!  Yes, I do like peppermint hot chocolate, thanks for asking.  Oh…wrong email…

TLR vs Mo…I agree, there was a struggle there.  Tony wasn’t afraid to call it out to the media either.  Tony was the one that would mention that Colby asked for a trade or that he felt the Cardinals should be looking for Player A or B.  He wasn’t shy about it.  In all honesty, I was surprised it took as long as it did for the relationship to finally break.

When the move was made to Mo and the press release was based on a directive of “better player development” and a focus on the farm system, I could see the power struggle preparing to start.  The struggle was there, but like most good managers and teammates, they figured out how to make it work.  That being said, it would be foolish of Mo to not pick someone that was more along the same lines when the opportunity came up.  It was really the best way this could possibly happen.  TLR walked out with his head held high, Mo got the manager of his choice, and no one has egg on their face (yet).

And yes, I do like peppermint hot chocolate.

Thanks,

Bill Ivie
Founder | Ivie League Productions
ILP features | i70baseball.com | baseballprerogative.com
ILP Radio Network | I-70 Radio | UCB Radio Hour | BBA Baseball Talk
Assignment Editor | BaseballDigest.com
Member of Baseball Bloggers Alliance
twitter.com/poisonwilliam

While I think TLR and Mo got along well enough (being professional and whatnot), I definitely always felt that there was a rub when it came to player development. TLR expected a young player fresh from the minors to be star-ready, and that’s not always the case. There’s a learning curve in the majors as well, and sometimes a young player needs additional guidance and grooming. TLR is not that kind of coach. In fact, he’s not really a coach at all; he simply managed games, and if a player needed help, TLR wanted him gone.

I don’t think their relationship was terrible, though, or else TLR would’ve bolted when his buddy Jocketty was fired. However, I do think Mozeliak is relieved that TLR is gone and someone with a coach mentality (Matheny) is now the manager. Notice how quickly after TLR’s retirement that Mozeliak started talking about using Tyler Greene at shortstop – these are the moves that Mo has been pushing for all along that TLR would always resist. Now that the final roadblock is gone, the player-development pipeline can truly begin to flow.

So anyway, I think both men are glad that their time together is over so they can pursue their personal agendas without the hindrance of the other.

Ray DeRousse

stlcardinalbaseball.com

First off, to the most important issue–this is the time of year that I actually go to Starbucks, just because of the peppermint hot chocolate.  Love that stuff.

Oh, we’re talking baseball too?  Awesome.  I think Mozeliak may have put it best in one of the press conferences when he said that he always looked at Tony the same way, but TLR had to adjust his view of Mozeliak from when he met him as an underling to when he moved into the big chair.  That kind of mental shift doesn’t usually happen without remnants of the old mindset lingering behind.

Again, like most have said I’m not sure there was any sort of power struggle with Mo and TLR.  There seemed to be mutual respect and admiration there, realizing that the other was doing their job well.  I think, though (and this could be just projection) that Tony could tell Walt what he needed and Walt would obviously go about doing it.  Mo, on the other hand, might weigh the options more, might go about it a different way, and that could cause some frustration in the manager’s office.

It’ll be interesting to see how the change to Matheny, a person that is more loyal to Mozeliak from the get-go and someone that hasn’t ever dealt with another GM, will go in regards to organizational harmony.

Now, who’s going out to get the peppermint hot chocolates?

Daniel Shoptaw

Author, C70 At The Bat

Co-Admin, CardsClubhouse

Founder, United Cardinal Bloggers

Founder, Baseball Bloggers Alliance

Twitter: @C70

I think the two got along pretty well, the relationship wouldn’t have lasted as long as it did if it hadn’t. However, I do think they had definite philosophy differences and that manager and GM pulling in two different directions as far as how the roster was put together. You saw this with the treatment of several players over the years.

Now with Mozeliak hiring Matheny, he has no excuses. With LaRussa, he could always claim (at least inside the organization) that the two want two different things and going in between the two has cost them. But now Matheny is his guy, out of the GM office, and is likely in line with the organization’s roster philosophy. This team will now succeed or fail based on how well the organization develops from within, especially after bringing back Pujols, because some of that financial flexibility will be gone and they’ll be more dependent on turning those productive minor leaguers into productive major leaguers.

But the real key of player development that I think Mozeliak and the organization still needs to master is realizing when a player doesn’t have it and maximizing your return while he still has value.

Jon Doble

www.redbirddugout.com

As much as La Russa’s favoring of “older” talent over the up-and-
comers has frustrated me the past few years, based on the outcome and
our shiny new World Series trophy, I admit that a balanced approach
may indeed have been the winning combination.  La Russa and Mozeliak
may have disagreed here and there, but often differences of opinion
lead to constructive conversations and ultimately better decisions.
It will be interesting to see what happens in similar situations this
coming season when La Russa’s supposed counterbalance is not in play.

As for the Jocketty component of the question, I think Tony’s sticking
around 4 more years after Jocketty’s firing again proved La Russa’s
talent was more than just being in the right place at the right time.
Most of what I know of Jocketty has come from reading about him since
he left St. Louis, so I’ll be interested in reading what you more
“experienced” baseball folk think here.

Erika Lynn

Website:  DiamondDiaries.net
Twitter:  @Erika4stlcards

With Tony La Russa retired, even though the working relationship appeared
professional, it must feel like a ton of bricks have been lifted off the
shoulders of John Mozeliak. He now can move forward in putting his signature
on the organization. With La Russa on staff, it always was going to be the
La Russa philosophy that dominated. That wasn’t a bad thing; it did help
bring about two World Series titles and three NL pennants. I suspect the
Cardinals organization now will stress more collaboration and will value the
input of many more than it did when La Russa was there.

Mark
http://retrosimba.com

Like it or not, John Mozeliak had training wheels on the Cardinals GM
job since the day he took over.

Now the training wheels are off and it’s his franchise to run with no
one with the power to veto his moves.

He made a gamble with his hire of Matheny. He’s playing high-stakes
poker with the Pujols negotiations. And when we look back at the
legacy of John Mozeliak as Cardinals GM, he’s probably, actually,
really making his legacy with the decisions he’s made the last month
into the next two.

The question then is… was he ready?

ATH

Aaron Hooks
www.CardsDiaspora.com

I think the relationship shifted during this season.

I distinctly remember Mo telling us at Social Media Night that “obviously we sacrificed some defense for offense” and I believe he succumbed to TLR’s idea to trade Brendan Ryan.When they didn’t work he decided to do it “his way” and went out and brought in some defense and other trades before the deadline and basically told TLR it was going to be his way (Mo) as he was the one responsible for that.

Now we hear the LaRussa informed Mozeliak he was retiring in August which can not be too long after the moves were made. I do not believe it was a coincidence that should go unnoticed.

Those are my thoughts.

Tom Knuppel

CardinalsGm.com

I think it’s inevitable to have some conflicting ideas when you have a guy like TLR — experienced, set in his ways, bold in his methods — and the “new kid on the block” like Mo who has his own ideas and goals. I’ve never thought the two shared many similarities and that was bound to cause some friction.

It seemed that Mozeliak was always struggling to gain the upper hand and the authority you’d expect the general manager to have. La Russa had more sway, it seemed, and there was a significant period of time where the power shift made it difficult to form a team that seemed cohesive.

However, (and I suppose the truth of this is yet to be seen) I felt that Mo’s mid-season moves were a start to him taking some of that control for himself. Of course, if he knew La Russa was retiring, that could have had something to do with it.

I think we’re yet to see the kind of GM Mozeliak really is/can be. I can’t say I haven’t questioned him, but fortunately for him, this season it worked out. We’ll see how he does with a team — coaching staff included — that’s really his.

Tara Wellman

Aaron Miles’ Fastball

P.S. — did you know Starbucks has their peppermint flavoring year round? So if you ever get a hankering for Christmas in July…

Fascinating question, glad that you asked it! Perhaps biased by the limited visibility that we have into that particular interpersonal dynamic, it seemed somewhat as if La Russa was the master and Mozeliak was the apprentice.  It was different when Jocketty was here – after all, Walt was the guy that brought La Russa in.    Until just recently, it was as if Trader Walt was still in charge of the team.  Signing starting pitchers to long term contracts, trading away all of the young talent for big name proven veterans, supplementing the team with guys at the end of their careers, but not quite finished.   That pretty much describes 1995 to about May of this year.   And yes, Walt makes that DeRosa deal 9 times out of 10.  For all of the good things that Jocketty did for the Cardinals organization, he is somewhat of a raze the fields type, leaving a barren wasteland where there was once fertile soil (as the Reds will soon find out).   Thank goodness he’s not here any longer or we might be without Matt Adams, Shelby Miller, Carlos Martinez and any of a dozen other prospects.I’m going to give John Mozeliak the exact same leeway that I hope we give Mike Matheny, making the transition from one system to another as painless as possible.  Rather than La Russa being the puppeteer, it could just be that Mozeliak was doing everything he could to make La Russa successful, as any executive should do.  Even to the point of not forcing a system on his manager that he knows won’t work.  The only thing La Russa did better than Mozeliak was controlling the public opinion through his post-game conferences and call in shows.  The mid-season Rasmus for parts deal was the turning point, and I agree that La Russa’s decision not to return shortly after was no coincidence.Win or lose, it is Mozeliak’s team now, and the new metrics evaluation of young talent will be in full force – to supplement Albert Pujols when he signs his long term contract in a couple of weeks.

But the real key of player development that I think Mozeliak and the organization still needs to master is realizing when a player doesn’t have it
and maximizing your return while he still has value.

I think they did pretty well with Brett Wallace:-)   Zack Cox anybody, anybody……

Bob Netherton

On the Outside Corner (@throatwarbler)

Good question! Until the question was asked, I hadn’t really even thougth about it, but I have gone back in my mind (and done a little research) and it seems that the answer to this is all about philosophies.

I get the distinct impression that LaRussa preferred to let other clubs develop a player and then trade for the player later, while John Mozeliak perfers to try to develop players through the Cards own farm system. Walt Jocketty made trades for some very good (or great) talent (Mark McGwire, Jim Edmonds, Edgar Renteria, Ferdando Vina, Larry Walker, etc). It seems that a majority of his trades were for established players. John Mozeliak has a smaller sample to take examples from, but it seems that most of his trades (outside of Matt Holliday) have been for pieces to fill a hole, rather than big name trades (such as last year’s trade of Colby Rasmyus for Edwin Jackson, Octavio Dotel, and Marc Rzepczynski).

It has certainly seemed over the years that LaRussa isn’t a big fan of dealing with younger players, so Mozeliak taking the club in the direction of younger players may have had a role. Not to mention the fact that John Mozeliak appears to be a more reserved person, almost like a politician carefully debating how he will phrase his next statement. LaRussa, on the other hand, was more outspoken and said what was on his mind. All in all, I feel like LaRussa realized the direction of the club and, perhaps, didn’t feel like dealing with young players any more. I do not think that that was the sole reason he retired, but was perhaps a contributing factor.

JE Powell

stlfearthered.com

I suspect that their relationship was largely defined by the respect and deference the ownership had towards Tony La Russa.  La Russa had the ear of DeWitt (and others) in a way that had to put a relatively inexperienced and somewhat reserved GM ill-at-ease.  It was clear that La Russa could throw his weight around and get what he wanted and Mozeliak had to walk a fine line when he disagreed.

This was something of a double-edged sword.  The interference must have been frustrating, but Mozeliak had someone to take the fall for him when a move didn’t work out.  When people complained about trading Brendan Ryan and replacing him with a statue of Ryan Theriot at SS, it was La Russa singled out instead of Mo.

It will certainly be interesting to see what MO does with a manager who he practically handpicked.

Malcolm Pierce

http://redbirdmenace.wordpress.com/

Well there you have it….thanks to everyone for participating. And readers, feel free to leave your comments below on the question…and I guess peppermint hot chocolate for that matter.